[T2] Starter won't turn type2 Digest, Vol 47, Issue 10

[Patrick Ludvig]

Don't rule out a bad battery. I bought a brand new redtop and then chased
starter issues for the better part of a year.
I could start it from a jumper battery and it might or might not stay
running when the jumper cables were pulled off of it.

Even installed the Bosch Relay and it did the same thing.

I did find a bad ground from the frame to transmission but replacing it
didn't fix it.

Finally tried a different battery and the damn thing fired right up.

Also, please don't hit the starter with a hammer. Remove the starter and
make sure it's not bound up. It's easy enough to do. Get a helper for the
long bolt in the top.

-Patrick


On Apr 25, 2017 10:21 AM, <type2-request at type2.com> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. [Q] Starter Won't Turn (David C Matthews)
   2. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (Snoopy)
   3. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (Ned Savoie)
   4. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (David C Matthews)
   5. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (David C Matthews)
   6. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (david raistrick)
   7. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (accessys at smart.net)
   8. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (Nathan)
   9. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (david raistrick)
  10. Re: [Q] Starter Won't Turn (accessys at smart.net)
  11. VW Mechanics in the Space Coast Area (Joshua Overmiller)
  12. Re: VW Mechanics in the Space Coast Area (david raistrick)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:39:42 -0500
From: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
To: Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID:
        <CAPXQ3QoFXnGDKmDp_JMgNBtQiksh1Rv=oK0yyV0Xf_XeGbmFcg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Greetings,

Have relatively new starter, but bus won't crank as the starter doesn't
make any attempt to turn. Battery is good -- been on the charger and shows
solid green light -- but when attempting to start the bus, starter makes no
attempt to do anything. After a couple of attempts the still-connected
charger shows a red light (e.g. charging).

Thoughts?

David

P.S. The starter has worked after being installed. This is a new problem
after the bus has sat for a while.


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 16:10:01 -0400
From: Snoopy <vwsnoopy at gmail.com>
To: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
Cc: Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID: <953C8DAC-ABE4-4BC5-BBD2-4DC89D18FCF8 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

Can you cross the terminals on the starter and see if it does any thing?

If not my guess:   Starter is in a bind, did you replace the bushing?

Can you turn the engine by hand?

Please excuse the brevity or typos in this email. Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 3:39 PM, David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> Have relatively new starter, but bus won't crank as the starter doesn't
> make any attempt to turn. Battery is good -- been on the charger and shows
> solid green light -- but when attempting to start the bus, starter makes
no
> attempt to do anything. After a couple of attempts the still-connected
> charger shows a red light (e.g. charging).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> David
>
> P.S. The starter has worked after being installed. This is a new problem
> after the bus has sat for a while.
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 16:12:55 -0400
From: Ned Savoie <ned at harbourlight.com>
To: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
Cc: Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID:
        <CAOMLKhG3dcWN6=-CsZdmfFRdyQYN=onKgeBVrwGEqwX8ybfb2A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

You can try giving the starter a tap with a hammer or the like. This sounds
like the classic "old wiring" syndrome. Do you have a starter relay in
place? You can also "jump" the terminals on the starter (just make sure it
isn't in gear) or you can add a switch so you can do it from an easier
place.

Hope this helps.


Ned

--

Ned Savoie
Creative Director

Harbour Light Strategic Marketing
Savvy Software, Inc.
621A Islington Street
Portsmouth, NH 03801

[Telephone] 603.427.2821
[Facsimile] 603.427.0938
[Mobile] 603.828.2400

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:39 PM, David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> Have relatively new starter, but bus won't crank as the starter doesn't
> make any attempt to turn. Battery is good -- been on the charger and shows
> solid green light -- but when attempting to start the bus, starter makes
no
> attempt to do anything. After a couple of attempts the still-connected
> charger shows a red light (e.g. charging).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> David
>
> P.S. The starter has worked after being installed. This is a new problem
> after the bus has sat for a while.
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:42:53 -0500
From: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
To: Snoopy <vwsnoopy at gmail.com>
Cc: Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID:
        <CAPXQ3QoFwXu_CGcVMRYitawJ9rF-kdUrfg-YpmpaXF5goWLA8Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Haven't crossed the terminals yet. Not sure about the bushing -- someone
else did the install as it was included in other engine work. Also not sure
about turning the engine by hand.

About to "dive in" to diagnostic mode in the shop. Just looking for
thoughts to keep from chasing too many rabbits.

Thank you for the input...

David


On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Snoopy <vwsnoopy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you cross the terminals on the starter and see if it does any thing?
>
> If not my guess:   Starter is in a bind, did you replace the bushing?
>
> Can you turn the engine by hand?
>
> Please excuse the brevity or typos in this email. Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 3:39 PM, David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> Have relatively new starter, but bus won't crank as the starter doesn't
> make any attempt to turn. Battery is good -- been on the charger and shows
> solid green light -- but when attempting to start the bus, starter makes
no
> attempt to do anything. After a couple of attempts the still-connected
> charger shows a red light (e.g. charging).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> David
>
> P.S. The starter has worked after being installed. This is a new problem
> after the bus has sat for a while.
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:47:27 -0500
From: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
To: Ned Savoie <ned at harbourlight.com>
Cc: Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID:
        <CAPXQ3Qpt2ccaC-JgOTTXCy=QgkNaVqdgsP701E3G-Mp+coqgMQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Was going to avoid crossing terminals -- have been told doing so isn't good
for the starter. But, under the circumstances, am going to do it! Also,
like the "hammer" suggestion. Hey, it's worked to free drum brakes -- why
not a starter? Best tool in the toolbox...

And about the relay -- don't know the answer.

David

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Ned Savoie <ned at harbourlight.com> wrote:

> You can try giving the starter a tap with a hammer or the like. This
> sounds like the classic "old wiring" syndrome. Do you have a starter relay
> in place? You can also "jump" the terminals on the starter (just make sure
> it isn't in gear) or you can add a switch so you can do it from an easier
> place.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> Ned
>
> --
>
> Ned Savoie
> Creative Director
>
> Harbour Light Strategic Marketing
> Savvy Software, Inc.
> 621A Islington Street
> Portsmouth, NH 03801
>
> [Telephone] 603.427.2821 <(603)%20427-2821>
> [Facsimile] 603.427.0938 <(603)%20427-0938>
> [Mobile] 603.828.2400 <(603)%20828-2400>
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:39 PM, David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Have relatively new starter, but bus won't crank as the starter doesn't
>> make any attempt to turn. Battery is good -- been on the charger and
shows
>> solid green light -- but when attempting to start the bus, starter makes
>> no
>> attempt to do anything. After a couple of attempts the still-connected
>> charger shows a red light (e.g. charging).
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> David
>>
>> P.S. The starter has worked after being installed. This is a new problem
>> after the bus has sat for a while.
>> _______________________________________________
>> type2 mailing list
>> type2 at type2.com
>> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo
>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 16:56:26 -0400
From: david raistrick <keen at icantclick.org>
To: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
Cc: Ned Savoie <ned at harbourlight.com>, Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID:
        <CA+QpJvs2ctcCzx+2o77NP3ArcPuzsq51UbKEZCE5yuPczmTBaA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:47 PM, David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Was going to avoid crossing terminals -- have been told doing so isn't
good
> for the starter.

Er - other than the contact arcing, it's exactly the same thing that
happens to the starter when you turn the switch.  :)    Make sure it's
the battery + cable big lug and the small spade lug, not across the
two big lugs, though. :)



> But, under the circumstances, am going to do it! Also,
> like the "hammer" suggestion.

The hammer is usually best for a stuck starter or gear - so after you
try to manually trigger it with the contacts.


> And about the relay -- don't know the answer.

If triggering via the contacts gets it to start, a relay is the only
real long term solution.  (in reality, all buses need a relay for the
starter circuit)   The voltage drop across the length of the wires +
age in the switch contacts and wire terminals is -always- going to
rear its ugly head eventually.


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:24:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: accessys at smart.net
To: Snoopy <vwsnoopy at gmail.com>
Cc: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>, Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.1704242223260.2350 at cygnus.smart.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed


is the correct starter in the bus.

they have several sizes and some are not interchangable.

Bob

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017, Snoopy wrote:

> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 16:10:01 -0400
> From: Snoopy <vwsnoopy at gmail.com>
> To: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
> Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
>
> Can you cross the terminals on the starter and see if it does any thing?
>
> If not my guess:   Starter is in a bind, did you replace the bushing?
>
> Can you turn the engine by hand?
>
> Please excuse the brevity or typos in this email. Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 3:39 PM, David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Have relatively new starter, but bus won't crank as the starter doesn't
>> make any attempt to turn. Battery is good -- been on the charger and
shows
>> solid green light -- but when attempting to start the bus, starter makes
no
>> attempt to do anything. After a couple of attempts the still-connected
>> charger shows a red light (e.g. charging).
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> David
>>
>> P.S. The starter has worked after being installed. This is a new problem
>> after the bus has sat for a while.
>> _______________________________________________
>> type2 mailing list
>> type2 at type2.com
>> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo
>




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 02:32:32 +0000
From: Nathan <nathan at wandrly.co>
To: david raistrick <keen at icantclick.org>, David C Matthews
        <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
Cc: Ned Savoie <ned at harbourlight.com>, Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID:
        <CAGCY1kfX_wUvc8KC86pg705FMCOeXV0ipzFnx3Cpn+L6fnnxgA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Second and third the relay. Changed my life especially after she was hot
from driving awhile. I no longer think about which hill I should park on
after driving a couple of hours.

What's the problem with connecting the two big lugs though? Just curious...
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:56 PM david raistrick <keen at icantclick.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:47 PM, David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Was going to avoid crossing terminals -- have been told doing so isn't
> good
> > for the starter.
>
> Er - other than the contact arcing, it's exactly the same thing that
> happens to the starter when you turn the switch.  :)    Make sure it's
> the battery + cable big lug and the small spade lug, not across the
> two big lugs, though. :)
>
>
>
> > But, under the circumstances, am going to do it! Also,
> > like the "hammer" suggestion.
>
> The hammer is usually best for a stuck starter or gear - so after you
> try to manually trigger it with the contacts.
>
>
> > And about the relay -- don't know the answer.
>
> If triggering via the contacts gets it to start, a relay is the only
> real long term solution.  (in reality, all buses need a relay for the
> starter circuit)   The voltage drop across the length of the wires +
> age in the switch contacts and wire terminals is -always- going to
> rear its ugly head eventually.
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:19:55 -0400
From: david raistrick <keen at icantclick.org>
To: Nathan <nathan at wandrly.co>
Cc: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>, Ned Savoie
        <ned at harbourlight.com>, Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID:
        <CA+QpJvt9Ek4hmUh-sOszKDg0oGcehfzUegS3VeYJOSAp548U6A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

> What's the problem with connecting the two big lugs though? Just
curious...


Nothing, if you dont want to trigger the solenoid or start the engine. :)

The solenoid normally closes them - and kicks the arm to move the gear out.

If you want to test if the starter or solenoid is bad, first jump the
battery big lug to the spade terminal -

 if the solenoid kicks and the starter doesnt move it might be the
starter still or the solenoid.  if it doesnt kick, you know the
solenoid is bad.

then try jumping the big lugs.   if the starter spins, the starter is
good (good enough to spin - might not have enough power to run when
hot, or might draw too much current, or whatever, but there's only so
much you can diagnose laying on your back in front of the rear
tire....


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:28:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: accessys at smart.net
To: david raistrick <keen at icantclick.org>
Cc: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>, Ned Savoie
        <ned at harbourlight.com>, Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.1704242326570.2350 at cygnus.smart.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed



it could have been jammed when being installed, lossening the bolts and
pulling the starter out slightly might give a hint, make sure the battery
is disconnnected first

Bob

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017, david raistrick wrote:

> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:19:55 -0400
> From: david raistrick <keen at icantclick.org>
> To: Nathan <nathan at wandrly.co>
> Cc: David C Matthews <dcm7293 at gmail.com>, Ned Savoie <ned at harbourlight.com
>,
>     Type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
> Subject: Re: [T2] [Q] Starter Won't Turn
>
>> What's the problem with connecting the two big lugs though? Just
curious...
>
>
> Nothing, if you dont want to trigger the solenoid or start the engine. :)
>
> The solenoid normally closes them - and kicks the arm to move the gear
out.
>
> If you want to test if the starter or solenoid is bad, first jump the
> battery big lug to the spade terminal -
>
> if the solenoid kicks and the starter doesnt move it might be the
> starter still or the solenoid.  if it doesnt kick, you know the
> solenoid is bad.
>
> then try jumping the big lugs.   if the starter spins, the starter is
> good (good enough to spin - might not have enough power to run when
> hot, or might draw too much current, or whatever, but there's only so
> much you can diagnose laying on your back in front of the rear
> tire....
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo
>




------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 09:24:56 -0400
From: Joshua Overmiller <overmiller at gmail.com>
To: Type 2 List <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: [T2] VW Mechanics in the Space Coast Area
Message-ID:
        <CALDuRfLFpw8vwUsq2Z5WvB8EKF2HS6txu9m8JALVRfXrsBA0Mg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hello all.

I'm contemplating buying a Vanagon.

Does anyone know of any VW / Aircooled shops in the Florida Space Coast
area?
i.e. Melbourne, Cocoa, Palm Bay, Cape Canaveral, etc.

Cheers,

Josh
.


------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:20:37 -0400
From: david raistrick <keen at icantclick.org>
To: Joshua Overmiller <overmiller at gmail.com>
Cc: Type 2 List <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] VW Mechanics in the Space Coast Area
Message-ID:
        <CA+QpJvsNsCcYy4cZuS9RxCS3M4Md4i_cLdu1HJ-64eKd-kN5Jw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:24 AM, Joshua Overmiller <overmiller at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello all.
>
> I'm contemplating buying a Vanagon.
>
> Does anyone know of any VW / Aircooled shops in the Florida Space Coast
> area?
> i.e. Melbourne, Cocoa, Palm Bay, Cape Canaveral, etc.


hey josh - I'm not a shop, but I'm not far from the space coast in Geneva.

If you dont mind or need to go further, there's Triangle Auto Parts in
Winter Park, and Charlie at http://www.daytonaaircooledparts.com/ and
there are a number of other folks around

Make sure you bring it to No Dough next year!


These guys are in titusville - I've driven past but never stopped (I
do all my own work), but I have seen him post on thesamba before.

Name   Air Cooled Technologies
Categories   Restoration
Location   Titusville, Florida, USA
Description   Air Cooled Technologies Located in Titusville Fl. Has 28
years experience in restoring all types of vw, early Porsche, classic
and muscle cars. Shop services include frame off, pan off, media paint
removal, metal fabrication and welding, mechanical and upholstery.
Along with quality show paint finishes,we will apply any customer
paint preference with stunning results. Quality and customer
satisfaction, is our number one priority. Price quotes and references
available. web site coming soon
Contact Info
Air Cooled Technologies Inc.
3569 Industrial Rd
Titusville Florida 32796

Phone 321-225-9742
Email millich28 at gmail.com


There are other shops listed here - best way to find things is to
search for ", florida" it seems. :)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/shops/cat.php?id=2


Name   Space Coast Imports
Categories   Parts
General Service/Repair
Restoration
Engine
Custom Work - Any
Location   Melbourne, Florida, USA
Description   Located in Melbourne, Florida, Space Coast Imports is a
full service Volkswagen Auto Parts and Repair/Service shop.
Specializing in all air cooled and watercooled models, we stock a wide
variety of stock replacement parts, street and offroad high
performance parts and aftermarket accessories. We are proud to be a
"VW ONLY" parts and repair business. Call Steve or Stephen at
321-409-8989 for any VW related needs.
Contact Info
Space Coast Imports
6959 West Nasa Blvd.
West Melbourne, Fl. 32904

321-409-8989
sci-vw at att.net
spacecoastimports.com
Website   http://www.spacecoastimports.com


------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of type2 Digest, Vol 47, Issue 10
*************************************