[T2] gremlins .... long.....

[Jamie]

Bob, electric problems can be dificult at best... especially with one 
person.
I usually try to have a helper... but one of the best tools I have is an 
aligator lead with my voltmeter.

with the starter... find a way to clip the meter lead to the term 50 spade 
terminal ... vise grips. aligator lead, etc and have long enough leads so 
you can view the meter from the key..
I have a recording meter.. so I can clip it on, turn the key,, and look see 
the lowest voltage recorded...
turn the key to start.. _0v_/___fill in voltage reading here**
if the voltage is low at the starter solenoid,,, work your way "back" the 
circuit to find where it is good.
the output of the hot start relay,, _0v_/___fill in voltage reading here
then the input , that should be the red/black, _0v_/___fill in voltage 
reading here
then the key output at the dash , other end of the same red/black... at the 
dash
you can poke thru the insulation here.. you don't have to pull the key 
switch out..._0v_/___fill in voltage reading here
then the RED wire that feeds the key switch,, you can poke thru the 
insulation here,, __/__fill in voltage reading here
this red wire is the same red wiire on the headlight switch.. which 
sometimes, is easier to find.. this wire should be B+ voltage
then find the big RED?WHITE wire that feeds the fuse panel.. __/__fill in 
voltage reading here
then the other end of the big red wire on term 50 at the starter... 
__/__fill in voltage reading here
note,,
**take a reading with key off... then key in start position

the next step is to do some maintenance on the starter...
I have included some more info below...

myself , I always pull that hot start relay out and fix the problem,,I don't 
believe in hot start relays, but I realize the hot start relay can protect 
the key switch from flyback voltage of the solenoid coil...


------------
Otmar wrote
As a mechanic who had to troubleshoot a lot of "repairs" where people
added a solenoid, I would advise against it. I believe it's better to
find the root cause than to patch around it. Here is an old post of
mine that may be relevant in your case:

At 10:20 AM -0800 8/2/98, Otmar Ebenhoech wrote:
When the solenoid gets hot, the copper wire resistance increases,
reducing the current drawn by it and the pull in force gets weaker.

I haven't heard anyone talk about the "ridge in the solenoid plunger
problem" on this list yet. This was a very common problem on VW's
when I used to work in a bus shop. Unfortunately, many people didn't
know about the problem and would try to fix it with a relay like in
the old 6V days. They'd add lot's of poor wiring in the dirty over
tranny area with a relay, what a mess!

Here's what I found:
Symptoms:
Solenoid does not click, especially after a long drive (vibration?
and hot starter). Usually starts after it cools, or if terminals on
starter are jumped, or if solenoid is whacked with a heavy object.
Gets worse over a period of months.

Problem:
The solenoid plunger has a groove worn in it from sitting on the
edge of the solenoid body and vibrating. When the solenoid pulls in
it gets a side load from the lever which pushes it into the groove.
This makes it hard to pull in.

Solution:
Remove starter and solenoid. Note (mark) the orientation of solenoid
plunger to the solenoid body! Clean and lubricate plunger with
tri-flow and some grease. Now rotate the plunger 180 degrees (since
there are two ways the plunger can engage with the lever) and re
assemble. This gives it a new smooth surface to slide on.

I have fixed starting problems on at least 20 vans this way, never
had one come back. :-)

HTH

  -Otmar-
Corvallis Oregon

-----------------
Jamie wrote
Here is some words of advice,,, but I think yearly is a bit overkill.. try
every 5 yrs,? ish...

 Paul A wrote
Starter Maintenance
It wasn't long after my wife and I started driving VW buses that I
realized the starter is a problem area.
I, like so many others, was carrying a small hammer and short but
thick jumper for when the starter would not turn over with a twist of
the key. Since banging and jumping the starter would revive
it, I was convinced that there really wasn't anything wrong with it
that couldn't be prevented.

Now I perform a yearly starter system maintenance routine that lets me
prevent problems instead of just fixing them. The benefit of this is
that I get to deal with this on my terms; you know, during good
weather, at a reasonable time of day, and in my own driveway
Since there are different starters for different buses, I'll just give
you the basics of what I do and then let you apply it to your own
situation.

Consult the Bentley manual for specific tests, and information about
the various starters and of course follow all precautions for working
on the electrical system.

First is to disconnect and remove the battery. As
always, disconnect the negative lead first and then the positive.

Once the battery is out I check it for cleanliness, condition and
proper water level. I like to use a battery brush to clean the
terminals on both the battery and battery leads. Now is also a good
time to check your battery tray for condition.

Next disconnect and remove the starter. If necessary, first mark the
wires so that you will get them back on the proper terminals. Clean
the terminal ends of all the wires disconnected from the starter until
they are shiny and clean. Take the starter to a work bench or
someplace else clean, where you can work on it. Disconnect the heavy
lead that connects the starter to the solenoid, and clean the end of it.

Next clean all of the terminals on the solenoid until they are shiny
and clean. I like to use a small brass wire brush for this. Now remove
the solenoid and check the plunger for condition and ease of movement.
You should be able to push it in and have it spring back out smoothly.
I wipe the plunger down with a little light weight oil like LPS 1.
With the plunger pushed all the way in, you should get continuity
across the 2 large terminal studs on
the solenoid.

Now it's time to disassemble, clean, and inspect the starter. Be
observant as you take it apart, so you will be able to reassemble it.
I do the following things to the starter; check the brushes for
condition, remove and check the armature for condition, clean the
commutator using a piece of scotchbrite. Disassemble, clean, and
inspect the drive mechanism parts, inspect the starter body and
windings for condition. Use compressed air or a vacuum cleaner to
clean out the starter and windings.

Repair or replace anything you've found wrong and reassemble the whole
thing. I use a little high temperature white lithium grease on the
drive mechanism parts at reassembly.

Clean the transmission where the starter body mounts,, wire brush ..
use de-ox on the starter nose, and the trans collar.. this is the starter
ground circuit.. good to have clean connection there too!

Now all that's left is to install and hook up the starter and battery.
Remember, hook up the battery's positive lead and then the negative
one. Hopefully, you'll have the same luck as me, and not have to deal
with the starter for another year.

Paul A
Huntington Station,
New York
71 westy