From mwest@CDSNET.NET Wed Oct 22 19:31:21 1997 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:12:42 -0700 From: Mike West Reply-To: Air-Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List To: Multiple recipients of list VINTAGVW Subject: Combustion Deposits, Cleaning of . . . Cleaning the firesides . . . This one got started as a guy who was firing up a "Kommon Gear" that had sat for 8 years and actually had bent pushrods from the valves being frozen. Engine is totally full of carbon etc. but he can't pull the engine. Crudely put, he pried the valve stems loose and replaced the pushrods with a used set. Going the "many oil changes" route. Told him "Once you're squared away and have it up to running temp.and running well enough, pour a glass of warm water slowly down thru the carb, with the engine at medium high rpm. "Find some old man who knows how to do this. Like your dad." This will clean the combustion chambers and the fireside of the valves. Do it outdoors, you can blow a lot of crap out the tailpipe. :-) And He Says: "Can't talk to my dad anymore, he's a lifelong alcoholic in total & absolute denial, and may in fact be dead by now; I'll spare ya the rest of the painful details." "Can you go into more detail? should I be expecting the engine to stall out while doing this?" "is that procedure "safe enough" for an air cooled VW engine? (sounds like it might be an OK thing for WATER-cooled engines). does it have something to do with "thermal shock" or something? seems like it might be "adding insult to injury" by adding the potential for the rings to rust, or seize in their cylinders -dread-" So I Says: Water in your intake is not new to your car. There is water in the air. Water in the gas . . . Your oil actually absorbs water to keep it from accumulating in the bottom of the oil pan. Water cleaning does two things. It does cause thermal shock and it turns to steam violently and gives a good scrub inside the heads. I wouldn't be surprised to find it is the secret ingredient of the much touted "Techron". :-) It will clean off the carbon deposits in the combustion chamber and hopefully also the valves and seats. What to do if you don't have a working Dad: :-) Get the engine up to operating temp and get back in the engine room with a pop bottle full of water. Good clean tap water tho there are some who say Perriers is better. . a glass full, a can full, about 12 fluid ounces. 355 milliliters. I bet there's guys who've used beer for this. I like to use hot water but I doubt if it makes much difference. Pull the Air cleaner for access to the choke intake. Rev the engine up to around 3000 rpm and slowly pour the water into the carb. You are working the throttle with your other hand to keep the engine from stalling. You pour right into the center of the carb, steady your hand/elbow so you don't "dump". You might practice this pour a couple times before you jump in there. . . :-) When it starts to stall, you stop pouring and tweek the throttle a couple shots to clear it and then back to the water. Pouring and revving till you've used all the water and have scrubbed your little pistons/comb.chambers clean. Keep it just on the edge of stalling for maximum cleaning. If you stall it, it shouldn't be difficult to get started again. One rev will have blown the water out. If it's stalling too much, rev the engine at a higher rpm. There is one warning, if you just dump the water in the carb, you can get a solid slug of water in a chamber and blow a piston out. I can honestly say I have never seen this happen but it's a possible. After you've done your Firesides, now you do your compression check. You might even get a better reading than before. The cleaning will clean the plugs too but on a temp basis it can foul them with a big flake of carbon from a wall etc. If you check your plugs and it's fouled in this manner, I would think you didn't use enough water. On the oil, tho it is possible to get some water in your oil while doing this I doubt it on an average good running engine. That's about it dude 'n dudettes . . . :-) Although it's a good procedure for "tuning up" a first time engine, it also is used regularly at least by me in my daily driver. About once a year is all, if I had a smoker or fouled plugs I would probably do it more often. Benifits: Jeez . . a clean engine is a happy engine? . . :-) It will allow max heat dissapation again. Seems to clean the valves and therefore gives better efficiency in mileage. May or may not clean the rings . . . I think it helps keep crap out of the oil in a round about way. If any of this seems like a bad idea, well don't do it. . . :-) Well what about Kerosine or Diesel Fuel instead of Water? Some people do do this . . . . :-) I don't know really, but I got a story This friend makes a living selling "Oil Treatments" for your car. One of the first things he does is take this can of stuff out and pour it down the carb like I do with the water. . . . . On seeing black smoke pouring out your tailpipe he says "see, it's already getting the carbon out of your engine!!" The ingredients are "alcohol 'n an emulsifier 'n petroleum distillates" Put some on a piece of tin foil and put it over the stove flame. It just smokes black and leaves a grey powder residue. So what was coming out my tailpipe looked a hell of a lot like what he poured in my carb. . . . :-) I think Kerosine and Diesel fall in the same category but it's a personal opinion. . . . :-) west Combustion Deposits, Cleaning of . . .