Mailing-List: contact type2-help_at_type2_dot_com; run by ezmlm
Reply-To: <ron_at_busdepot_dot_com>
From: "The Bus Depot" <ron_at_busdepot_dot_com>
To: <jeffbell_at_siu_dot_edu>, <type2_at_type2_dot_com>
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:37:35 -0500
Organization: The Bus Depot, Inc.
Message-ID: <024501c5f30c$4fd1e500$0a0ba8c0_at_RON>
In-Reply-To: <1132981260-17668.00012.00181-smmsdV2.1.3_at_saluki-mailhub.siu_dot_edu>
Subject: RE: [T2] Hankook Tires are back!

> Just a note to all concerning the Hankook RAO8 tires. You
> are probably all tired of me raving about these tires but, this
> time, I want to add one caution.  These tires are absolutely
> outstanding on dry roads and even good in the rain.  In fact,
> I've done some amazing off-roading in them a couple times also.
> This past week I discovered why they are NOT rated M&S,
> however.
>
> My lady lives at about the 3,000 foot level in the Syskiyou
> mountains in Southern Oregon.  A couple of evenings back,
> I was backing down her drive (about 50 yards long and a 20
> angle.  Though ice had collected on my windows and mirrors
> during the day, the drive looked fine.  It wasn't.  As I was backing
> down, the rear of the bus began to slide left and I was unable to
>  stop it or control it.  I even tried to shift back into first but it just

> continued to slide.  I was just going for the ride.
>
> I probably should have had chains or studded tires on it.  I
> doubt if even M&S tires would have helped that much.
>
> The point of all this is be wise (unlike me) when choosing
> tires.  I still maintain that the Hankook RAO8 tires are the
> best bus tires available for normal conditions, at any price.
> They are NOT severe weather or severe road condition tires,
> however.  I'm looking for studded winter tires right now.


First of all, to clear up one point of confusion, the Hankook RA08's ARE
all-season rated tires, as per Hankook's own data sheet:
<http://www.hankooktireusa_dot_com/pdf/uploads/RA08.pdf>  By comparison, the
Yokahamas, Bridgestones, Continental Vanco's, etc. are rated strictly as
summer tires according to those manufacturers. (TireRack lists the Conti as
all-season, but this is not borne out by Conti's factory literature.) Having
used all of the above, I have found the Hankooks to be superior in snow
conditions.

That said, superior does not mean optimal. Neither the Hankooks nor most
"all-season" tires are any match for an actual snow tire.  I spoke at length
to an engineer at Vredestein about this very issue a couple of years ago
when I first started carrying their tires. He said that U.S. M+S "all
season" standards are a total joke, as the standards were developed by the
tire industry itself rather than the government, and therefore are so lax
that they are almost meaningless. He said that some of Vredestein's
competitors sell the identical tire in Germany as a summer tire and in the
U.S. as an all-season tire. Many of them would never meet European standards
for an all-season tire, he said. (I have noticed this with the 16" Dunlops
that came factory-equipped on later Eurovans, which are noted as "all
season" in U.S. advertising but apparantly sold as summer tires in Germany.)


Vredestein is a strong proponent of using dedicated snows (on all 4 corners,
they feel) in winter weather.  Their opinion (with which I agree) is that
virtually no "all-season" tire can compare to one that is designed for snow
and ice handling.  While the Hankooks will come as close as any similar
all-season tire, they are not snow tires. While I have used Hankooks
year-round in the past, I now use Vredestein snows on the rear during the
winter. My logic is that the additional cost of doing this is almost nil.
During the 4 months that I am using the snows, I am not using the Hankooks,
so the Hankooks will last that much longer. This means that while I have the
initial investment in the snows, it is offset by the increased lifespan of
my other tires. The only real cost is the cost of swapping the tires twice a
year (and the fact that snows tend to have a slightly shorter tread life
than all-season tires, all things being equal). I solved the former by
picking up a used pair of rims at a junkyard and keeping my snows
permanently mounted, so it's only a matter of swapping the rims. To me this
makes good sense. After all, your tires are your last line of defense
against an accident. As Jeff says, maybe a set of snows would have prevented
the slide he experienced, and if so, would have saved him hundreds of
dollars in body work. (Fortunately it was a minor incident and nobody was
injured.) Then again, maybe not; even a snow tire can slide on ice. In any
case it increases your odds.

Of course this is not necessary if you don't live in a region that gets a
lot of snow.  Here in my part of Pennsylvania, it's a crapshoot. Some years
we have have several feet of snow on the ground, other years, nearly
nothing.

Speaking of Vredestein and snows, Vredestein seem to have been listening to
the guy at Hankook who decided that nobody buys Bus tires. Last year,
Vredestein offered three different 185R14 snow tires for the Bus. This year
they discontinued two of them, and had not even planned to import the third
to the U.S. (the Comtrac Winter, a silica-compound directional snow tire
that was the best of the three).  After I spoke to Vredestein, they managed
to find me 8 sets in Holland, which supposedly are on their way now (to
arrive in about a month). AFAIK the price will remain $99, same as last
year. But apparantly that's all they have, although officially they haven't
discontinued them yet. It will be a shame if they do, as I don't know of
another snow tire that meets Bus load requirements and can compare to the
Vredestein, especially for the price.

You can find more info on choosing the right Bus tire at:

 http://busdepot_dot_com/details/tires.jsp

- Ron Salmon
  The Bus Depot, Inc.
  www.busdepot_dot_com
  (215)  234-VWVW

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